Former governor of Jigawa State, Sule Lamido, has lamented the misery imposed on Nigerians by the President Bola Tinubu administration, insisting that the administration has turned Nigerians into people living in Pharoah’s Egypt.

Lamido, a founding member of the PDP, also spoke on the crisis rocking the PDP and the attempts to get the acting National Chairman of the party, Umar Damagun, to step aside.

He accused the FCT Minster, Nyesom Wike of being used by APC to destroy the PDP, and the role of the judiciary is playing in the imbroglio.

He equally shared his thoughts on the proposed merger of the opposition parties ahead of the 2027 general elections, saying that unless something meaningful and concrete is done it will be very difficult to uproot President Tinubu in 2027. Excerpts:

Let us start with your view on the crisis rocking the PDP at the moment. May we have your perspective on the removal or otherwise of the acting National Chairman, Alhaji Umar Illiya Damagun?

The PDP as a political party has a history and the challenges within the PDP are something that are well known to all Nigerians. What is happening to the leadership is something that is also well known; some of which are internal while others are externally-induced.To me, I am optimistic that we can contain the situation. We have got a political history and the political commitment to address the situation. Our biggest problem, however, is the judiciary. I am really very, very sad. Political parties are formed by the people; they write their own constitutions, their norms and conventions, which should be guiding their party in terms of their breach. And INEC is the umbrella of all the political parties, overseeing their activities and their functions, such as how they submit candidates for elections and others. But today, unfortunately, the judiciary has become another department of the APC. And by their action or inaction, they are very clearly fast-tracking the death of democracy in Nigeria.

When you say they are fast-tracking the death of democracy, what exactly do you mean?

This is because of the judgments being given today by the various courts, a situation whereby courts of similar jurisdiction keep on contradicting themselves. The decisions of the various courts today keep on contradicting one another, contradicting even the decision of the Supreme Court. The judgment of the Supreme Court is very clear on the issue of political parties. The judgment is clear that nobody can interfere because the parties have got their own constitutions, which they use in running their internal affairs. The court can only interfere where the processes and procedures of producing candidates into public offices are breached. And, therefore, the parties must note that because they are producing candidates into public office, they have to do so in clear, transparent and credible process. Where they breached their constitutional process, the court can interfere. But issues like who becomes the chairman, who becomes the secretary, who becomes my BOT chairman and how the party is being run on a daily basis by the Working Committee is not the business of the court.

The removal of the acting national chairman, do you think that the attempted removal, at the time it was done and in the circumstances it was done, was correct?

It Is not an issue of removal or replacement. It is an issue of what the party’s constitution is saying precisely in terms of occupying and removal from office. It is very clear that the party, in its own wisdom, had zoned its political offices to specific zones of the country and they have zoned the leadership of the party to the North-central zone. It is very, very clear. And, therefore, if the chairman from that particular zone steps down or is removed or is no longer there on account of death, it becomes clear that his zone should replace him. It is a very simple thing.There has been precedents. At one time, Iroh Safana was the chairman from the Northwest. When he stepped down, Shema replaced him. These are positions which have been zoned for the party’s unity and cohesion; they are zoned to ensure that the party is stable. And, therefore, if you alter the equilibrium, there is going to be aproblem for the party. Therefore, I repeat that there is no crisis about removal or replacement in the PDP. What is difficult there? If you insist on remaining the chairman of the party, then it means that you are denying the North-central their position and that can affect the configuration of the party’s stability.

Were these facts not available to the party leadership at the point of assigning him to act? Why didn’t the party pick someone from the North-central zone from the beginning?

Well, it is because there are people who have interests outside the party and within this government, who want to make sure that the PDP dies and, therefore, they are using a mole in our party, like Wike, who is being bribed with a position for undermining the PDP in 2023 elections. He is being rewarded. The Federal Government, or put in another way, the All Progressives Congress is using Wike to hold the party (PDP) by the jugular. We had thought that the judiciary should be fair enough, but they too are acting in tandem, look at all the judgments they have been giving, I cannot comprehend. It is purely an interest. How do you tell a party that you cannot remove your chairman and you cannot change him while our constitution is very, very clear on that? What is the business of the judiciary in this? What about the moral authority and character of the person you are talking about?What stops him from saying I am a person with a high sense of honour and dignity and, therefore, there are something that I will not succumb to; to say that I am holding the position because there is a vacancy andI am willing to step down if you bring a replacement. But the same chairman is using proxies to go to court, using the chairman of the PDP in Yobe and Borno states to go to court so that he should not be removed… And you called that a removal, it is not a removal or a replacement. Remove from what? It is not his position. He was only acting because of a given incident. That is all. And then Nigerian courts should now come and tell PDP how to run our party. IfNigeria’s democracy collapses today, it is all because of our judiciary. And by the time the system collapses, they are going to be the worse for it. I am telling you because from all indications, they are fast-tracking the collapse of this democracy.

Sir, let’s talk about the FCT Minister, Nyesom Wike. How do you see his role in the present dynamics of inter-party democracy in Nigeria?

You see, I have never seen Wike as a political issue.I see Wike as a character who is willing to be used for a purpose. I mean if you look at the Nigerian history and the rise of PDP, Wike has no role in PDP. He was only opportune to be holding public positions – as a governor, as a minister. Those positions have been propping him up. He is simply acting on the platforms of those positions. Remove the positions and he is gone from the political space.Where is the former governor of Benue State, Ortom today? Where is the former governor of Abia State today? Do you still hear about them? Where is the G-5 today? Wike , Makinde, Ortom, Ikpeazu and others? You are only hearing of Makinde and Wike. Makinde,yes because he is still a governor. Before his election, who was Makinde? He was an unknown quantity. I am being honest! If Wike was not a minister today, he would have been history. Like I always say, it is the office talking , not the personality. He has no political personality at all. His political personality is inconsequential. It is the office which he is using to control situations. That is all.

The APC , don’t you think that as long as they have Wike playing these alleged roles, the PDP will never rise again?

You see that is why they are keeping him. What I am saying is that if they sack him, he is going to be like Ortom. Look at Ortom, they were having meetings in Barcelona, in Madrid, in Paris, all over because they were availing themselves of the resources of the office they were holding. Can they meet abroad now? They cannot meet abroad now because the office that Ortom was occupying has been removed and Ortom has become an ordinary person like Sule Lamido – a former governor like me. He cannot talk anymore because where is that leverage? The same thing with the other two governors from Abia, Ikpeazu and Enugu, Ifeanyi Ugwuanyi. Makinde is there because he is a governor. Wike is very, very lucky as a machinery being used by APC in the PDP. They appointed him a Minister of Abuja and he is their resources and that is why he is still visible and relevant. Wike as a person doesn’t exist? To me, very soon , he is going to be a political history!

What is your view about state electoral commissions whereby election outcomes are 100 per cent in favour of the ruling party at the state level?

Give me a break please! What we see at the state levels is a micro refection of the mega one which is at the centre. How about the general elections in Nigeria? Are they good? Are they transparent? The election conducted by INEC, are they good? Did they follow due process? So,when the mega elections are not good, what do you expect of the micro ones at the state? What you have at the state level by the state government is a reflection of the Federal Government’s. The election of 2023 was defective, was faulty by all standards, yet it was upheld. And, therefore, why do you blame your younger brother for imitating you? He is only taking his inspiration from you. You are his radar; why do you blame him?

Yes, having stressed these points what then is the solution? What is the way forward or should we continue in this negative direction?

What I am saying is that because of the wrong doing which has permeated our entire system, we are now captives of our own misdemeanors, simple! Today,the system is being manipulated, we have all listened to him. He knew how he rose to power and the accusations about his lifestyle in America – these are in the public domain. And, therefore, what do you expect from this kind of background? He said it is my time! It is my turn , not Nigerians turn! And because, it is his turn, he is now there as a favour to us, and luckily for him and unfortunately for Nigeria, Nigerians are also a failed people. So, even if you get a Moses, Nigerians are not ready to be liberated. He is lucky because he has turned Nigerians into Pharaoh people and even if Moses should come now, the people are not ready.It would be difficult to conquer him. We are simply captive of our own misdemeanors. And we are helpless.

What is your take on the level of hardship, are we actually making progress in the way the statistics are telling us or the way we feel in our stomachs and pockets?

You see, you are missing something that is very, very clear about the philosophy of leadership. A leader should be humane, with empathy, with that feeling of concern, care and compassion. That is one aspect. The other way is the reversal. That is the Pharaoh aspect. Which isfear, intimidation, pain, agony and hunger. So, that Pharaoh can then give you the food. It is a country whereby palliative has become an act of governance. Palliative, which is normally for disasters, either earthquake, famineor natural disasters, that is, where you apply palliatives. But today, the entire act of running government is being reduced to giving palliatives. What is the main function of the government? Human development, it is not there. Why should you turn me to a beggar and be giving me palliatives? Let me use my own capacity to earn a living.Why must you destroy me?That is why I say that his style of leadership is very, very Pharoaric. He has found a store or warehouse whereby hunger was locked up, poverty was locked up,everything was locked up and Nigerians were very free , we were happyand he went and unlocked It and the whole thing came up rushing just like a dam whose embarkment has been broken. Now, he deliberately unlocked the warehouse and we are now overwhelmed. We are swimming now in poverty, in pains and in hunger. And now because we are suffering he says okay, take this, I will help, I will give you relief. Why should vou in the first instance give that kind of relief? Why should you in the first instanceimpose that kind of hardship on me for me to be reduced to begging you? You caused the poverty, you caused the agony and you caused the misery and you are now giving me relief and you are making me feel I am indebted to you and to thank you for giving me relief. And he doesn’t give a damn.

A lot of people had the belief that African richest man,Aliko Dangote and his $20 billion refinery was coming to relieve Nigerians of the huge cost of fuel. But that is not the case. How do you see their present controversy?

I don’t want to be entangled in the Dangote debate. Dangote, Tinubu, Otedola and Emefiele and all these moneybags, when they were enjoying their honeymoon, I have no idea what they were doing. I mean that they have been there for a long time. I don’t want to get into their own controversy. It is their own civil war. What I am saying is this. Dangote is not for the other Nigerian. It is their own fight. I don’t want to be dragged into their fight. What ever is their differences, they belong together. Look, Dangote has been around for how long? Dangote has been around for a very long time . Under Buhari, Dangote was there, Tinubu was there. All the mafia bosses, in quote, they were there. This is a mafia war.Why should I be entangled in it? The more you suffer, the more money they make. When elephants are fighting, they say, it is the grass that suffers. But then we, the grasses, are innocent. We are very innocent. We should not bethe victims of these mafia fight?

Do you think that from where the PDP is at the moment, it can rise again to rule this country in 2027?

When you say PDP, you are putting up a fake dichotomy between the political parties. There is no boundary anymore. Who is the Senate President – Akpabio. What was he – a PDP man. Who is the APC National Party Chairman – Ganduje. What was he before – a PDP man. Who was the former Chairman – Abdullahi Adamu. What was he before – a PDP man. Who is Akume, the Secretary to the Government – a former PDP man. I mean when you say PDP, which PDP are you talking about?

Let me rephrase it. Those of you that have remained in the PDP, in the face of all these crises rocking the party, are you likely to rise again?

Let me take in the reverse. You shouldsay that those who are there participating and encouraging the crises let them have the fear of God and come back to the PDP. That’s all.

Are you depending on their coming back before you can rise again?

What I am saying is that how would I rise again, when they are there fighting me. Look! Go to APC, who is APC minus PDP? Those who came there to join the legacy party were the AC. Who is AC? When the AC was formed , who are the legacy party men? Where was TInubu – A C N. Buhari – CPC and the others were APP. These are three parties and these three parties combined together. But then the members of the PDP who went to APC in 2014 were the ones who put life into APC, simple! Former governors, former this and that, they all went to APC to destroy PDP. And so when you are saying PDP, which PDP? The line is now very, very thin.APC with PDP members are in government and we are saying , those of us who were in the PDP. Please help us. We are appealing to all the PDP members in APC and these represent up to 80 per cent of the so-called APC to come back. I mean the entire thing in APC is PDP. I am simply appealing to those of us from the PDP in APC to look at the history of their political party, to look at what we did and what they are doing now as APC, what we did in PDP. How Nigeria was very united and stable and prosperous. There was peace and wealth. Now they are in APC, they know the difference. They can now compare and contrast, their role then and their now. That’s all.

There is a feeling in some quarters that the opposition political elements need to merge or work together if they truly want to withstand the APC and their potential to manipulate the process in 2027. Let’s have your reaction to this feeling?

When you talk about manipulation, don’t talk about APC. Talk about the characters in government. Not APC because they are coming from diverse backgrounds to form the government.

My main question here is your take on the merger of opposition elements…?

You see, a merger should be borne out of the real concern of the country; where are we heading to, what we are going through,and how we can sincerely and genuinely save the country, which means putting aside our interests as individuals – whatever they are.Let us first unite for the cause of this country and what we are going throughFor now, we should de-emphasize our interests, play it down. When you talk about coming together and the chemistry has begun to identify certain people as possible candidates, then the entire process is that you will be working for those people. I don’t work for any person.I am willing to work for Nigeria. I believe in working for you through working for Nigeria, not the other way round. I will support you through Nigeria, not supporting Nigeria through you. So, a very, very genuine and sincere collaboration, what you call merger should be based on principles. What is the bigger picture and what is ahead of us? What is uniting us? It should be first, Nigeria and what we are going through. We are worried, we are concerned and care and that is why we are coming together for the country, then I will go for it because there is something altruistic ahead.And, therefore, for us to merge, all the people who are visible, who are being seen as potential candidates should play it down and say look as far as I am concerned, I’m willing to work for Nigeria first. When the time comes, I may run. I think it’s very important for us to unite around Nigeria and around issues and from there form the alliance. And then the process would produce the right person to lead us in government. The process should be very open, transparent and inclusive, devoid of anything selfish and should welcome on board all those who are interested. I am sure if we have such a scenario and a process in place, I am sure that those in APC would come back. They wouldn’t come back now because they would say that even if I come back , I am coming to work for Mr A. and they will not come. If they find that the ground is level, open and transparent and inclusive, of course, they would come. But when you have situations that are already predetermined, why should I come back? (Sunday Sun)