Elder statesman, Prof Yusufu Turaki, has said that the backwardness, crises, conflicts and many other human vices in the north are because of wrong political geography, ethnic, religious and regional differences that have inundated the entire region.

Turaki, a Middle Belt leader, further stated that Nigeria is not an Islamic state, noting that liberal democracy and Islamic theocracy cannot mix. In his words, religious rights exist, but not theocratic rights.

In an interview with VINCENT KALU, the Professor of Theology and Social Ethic, also identified the practice of preferential and differential treatments as one of the reasons for the lack of cohesion in the country. According to him, social justice is given to some but denied others. This, he pointed out, is a serious ethical problem, where some Nigerians are denied social justice.

The 2027 election is around the corner. What are your expectations?

Historically, Nigerian political philosophy and political practice are founded upon three primal social factors, namely: Ethnicity, religion and region. These pillars are seriously undergoing permutations. Generally, politicians are hopelessly hopeful of a political success in the 2027 elections, but the whole atmosphere is now filled with opinionated politicians, who have filled the mass media with their abstract and subjective postulations, speculations and imaginations to the neglect of the raw facts and physical realities on ground.

Politicians who pursue and get political facts and realities in the muddy waters of the Nigerian politics may be successful to the neglect of political day-dreamers. My expectations cannot be met with this crude political atmosphere.

Some are saying Nigeria is gravitating towards a one-party state. What is your opinion on this?

On ground, there is no political ideology. Instead, they watch how the political winds are blowing and they simply follow where the political winds take them to – ‘which political party should I join that can guarantee for me a political success?’ It is for this reason that many politicians have jumped ship for the winning party. Politics of influential personality determines which political party to join with bedfellows. No issue-based politics, but personal self interests and so they follow the tide of politics and are swept ashore the party by the moving boat of politics.

The core north is still opposed to the appointment of INEC Chairman, Prof. Joash Ojo Amupitan because of his earlier position on Christian genocide in the north. What is your take on this?

Your question assumes that the north has two polarities – the core north and the non-core north. One polarity may be speaking out of arrogance and may assume to be speaking for the whole north. This is the fallacy of human political dominant spirit, being hegemonic.

You would have seen that the said ‘core north’ has first of all, rejected the one who appointed Prof Amupitan, before rejecting him. Secondly, didn’t they say that they would not accept the outcome of the elections and would even ask their followers to do the same?

The insinuations are very clear. The president knows Prof Amupitan better than anyone of them, who met his qualification and quality. I hope that Mr. President knows their political and religious antics and so needs to deal decisively with their hypocrisy and self-centredness. This ‘clique’ has assumed that they sit in authority over Mr. President to obey their diction. In a multi-ethnic, multi-religious and multi-cultural Nigeria, you still have such political primitivism being thrown at Nigerians. The best thing to do is for the president to ignore their chagrin to their fate.

Where do you stand on reintegration of repentant terrorists – Boko Haram and bandits into society?

Deradicalisation as a concept and practice may be used successfully elsewhere, but not in Nigeria, where there is no common-ground values to checkmate sub-national values. The sponsors of such a social theory in Nigeria are using it as a Trojan horse. This is a sure way of integrating hardened criminals, Islamists and jihadists into both the Nigerian Armed Forces and the society.

Practically, we have seen its devastating default. We all know how this corrupt project has been made superior to the plight and neglect of the IDPs. The case of the IDPs should be made a priority to replace this Trojan horse of deception of taking inherent fanatical and historically ingrained religious beliefs out of the religiously-minded criminals and sociopaths.

Talking about the reintegration of repentant Boko Haram and bandits into the society, why didn’t the government extend the same programme to agitators of Biafra, instead of jailing them?

In the first place, such a social theory is a delusional fallacy, despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary. Secondly, knowing the Nigerian state of ethnocentrism, if the state machinery were controlled by the Igbo, advocates for the reintegration of Biafrans would perhaps be like what is being done to Boko Haram in the North? Boko Haram has destroyed the peace of the North-East Region, yet, its leaders and killers are at large, but Nigeria hunts for the leaders of Biafra in the wider world, beyond Nigeria. This is the irony of being a Nigerian leader. We practise preferential and differential treatment of ourselves. Social justice is given to some, but denied to others. This is a serious ethical problem, where some Nigerians can be denied social justice.

One has thought that the coming of US troops into Nigeria would reduce the killings going on the north, but it has escalated. Why?

Do not look elsewhere for the causes, but examine the major root and cause of insecurity in the north, which is Sharia. There are other minor causes. Nigerians have deliberately refused to address the question of Sharia, where Islamic jahiliyyas have misinterpreted and misapplied it in Nigeria being a non-Islamic state. Nigerians will never have peace, nor be united as long as Sharia is in vogue.

Historically, the issue of Sharia had been fully settled amicably with its common-ground values and institutions for both Muslims and Non-Muslims in the late 1950s. The controversial Nigeria 1999 Constitution has added more to the injury. In this confused Nigerian social environment, Nigerians need to come to their senses and resolve two fundamental issues plaguing Nigeria, namely, Sharia and the 1999 constitution. What we see and experience today as Nigerians are the by-products of Nigerians refusing to address these two pending issues. There is a great need for a Nigerian roundtable discussion on these salient matters.

Those state governments that do that, to them, the bandits and the terrorists are considered deprived brothers who needed to be compensated and appeased. But, we all know that such practice can be abused grossly. As it has been seen, it has failed woefully in such states riddle with insecurity.

It could be a means of arming the bandits and terrorists through the State. The principles of collusion as alluded to by Lt. General T.Y. Danjuma (Retd) and many others, have been surreptitiously been a means of empowering the bandits and terrorists. The Islamic factor in this is glaring and well entrenched, as the major actors of both sides are mainly Muslims. The Nigerian Islamic states are in worst state of insecurity. While in the Middle Belt states, the sponsors and actors of insecurity are invaders from mainly Hausa land and Kanuri land. These two lands are where homegrown acts of banditry, terrorism, jihadism and Fulani militias are exported into the Middle Belt and the rest of Nigeria.

In a sovereign state like Nigeria, how do you describe a government that watches as its citizens are forced to pay monetary tributes to non-state actors – bandits, Lakaruwa and Boko Haram, before they are allowed access to their farms or continue to live in their villages?

‘Things Fall Apart, the centre cannot hold’, says Professor Chinua Achebe. What is going on is the actual implementation of Sharia and Islamisation. You may choose to ignore this fact, but it doesn’t change its reality. It is the state government that implanted Sharia, how can it not allow the ‘true’ Muslims who are the bandits, the terrorists, the jihadists and the Fulani militias to do exactly the tenets of Sharia? Don’t you know that we are practising the philosophy of a state within the state?

Sheik Gumi recently said that the government knows all the financiers of terrorism in the country. What should a responsive government do with these revelations?

Are you not aware of the fact that the president or the state does not have all powers? Are you not aware of the great powers of the hidden cabals? This is where the problem is? Who will bell the cat? This issue is a political cul-de-sac. The answer to question of this nature is simply, mum it’s the answer.

From the way things are going in this country, do you see the IDPs being closed down and the people returning to their ancestral homes, especially in the Middle Belt?

If there is the political will, it can be done. What is the worth, the dignity and the sanctity of a human life in Nigeria? The answers to these human values determine how the IDPs are being treated in Nigeria.

Which zone should produce the presidency in 2027?

This is political geography and mapping. It has bearing on the question of political participation and political representation in a multi-ethnic, multi-religious and multi-regional setting as Nigeria is a one-geo-political entity. This question can be said to be of a political-toss. But all depends upon the coalescing of social and political dynamics and social formations at a given time. Whichever zone you prefer, it ultimately depends on the fact of this political coalesce.

How?

The rationale of equity, fairness, justice, participation and representation, can be thrown overboard, regardless of any preference. This is the power of social dynamism and social formation, regardless. But men of good conscience and goodwill can renounce their political rights for the sake of unity, peace, harmony, participation and representation over politics of clientelism, dominance and authoritarian.

Anytime political power rotates to the north, where should it berth – North-West, North-East or North Central?

First of all, let it be stated clearly, that political geography of the north into three zones ignored the reality of ethnicity, religion and region. The social, ethnic, religious and cultural chaos in the north is this misnomer of political geography. The current political geography of the north needs to be restructured. Iron and clay do not mix. Look, backwardness, the crises, conflicts and many other human vices in the north, are all as a result of wrong political geography, ethnic, religious and regional differences that have inundated the entire region. Settle these internal unresolved issues and do not white-wash them with the caveat of the politics of inequality in the north.

The level of patriotism for the country seems to be low. Why?

It is a result of the long-term socio-political consequences of the Nigeria 1999 Constitution and the Sharia. Nigeria as a state had institutionalized perpetual instability by combining two contradictory ideologies: Liberal democracy and Islamic theocracy. Nigeria is not an Islamic state. Religious rights exist, but not theocratic rights. You can never operate these two ideologies successfully under one roof called Nigeria. How can there be Nigerian patriotism, where two ideologies orient its citizenry towards two opposing destinies?

What should be done to boost citizens’ love for the nation?

Nigerians, you have settled the questions of both the Nigeria 1999 Constitution and the Sharia. (The Sun)