Former Deputy National Chairman of the People’s Democratic Party (PDP), Chief Bode George, has condemned Nigeria’s electoral process, describing it as “distasteful and disgusting.”

In an interview with Sunday Sun, he urged the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) not to bury the will of the people will, warning that reducing the country to a one-party state would lead Nigeria “to the edge of hell.”

On internal party politics in the PDP, he expressed disappointment in former Senate President Bukola Saraki, accusing him of undermining the reconciliation efforts by joining the Nyesom Wike group. George described Saraki as “shameless” for abandoning his role as chairman of the reconciliation committee.

Addressing the security crisis in the country, George, a weapons systems engineer, described the current effort of the federal government as a “huge joke,” and advocated community-level policing and state police, arguing that approval for such reform takes far too long compared to loan approvals. He also spoke on the banking sector, alleging that the wealth of many bank executives stems from corruption and “round-tripping” rather than legitimate production or industry.

In May 2017, N3.3 trillion was approved by the Federal Government to offset the debt of the power sector, then in July, another N4 trillion was approved. Then just recently, what the government describes as a full and final N3.3 trillion has also been approved for power sector liabilities. Do you see this as a good strategy?

I studied electrical engineering and I underwent my pupillage training. Nowadays, after graduating, you go for a two-year pupillage, and I was at Niger Dams Authority, which was the major supplier to the Electricity Corporation of Nigeria (ECN) at that time. I worked and I learned things about power production and distribution, and the essentials of making sure that there is power in the country. So I am talking from experience.

I then left to join the Nigerian Navy and was converted into a weapons systems engineer. They moved me from power electronics into real computers. The war had just ended and they needed to modernise because in those days, you found men sitting on guns, using their sights to turn the guns against incoming aircraft and all that. That is archaic. So I knew a great deal about the power sector. I left my colleague, a lead engineer, E.K. Shumulu who stayed back. They decided to merge Niger Dams Authority with the ECN because the debt portfolio on ECN was heavy and it was on the recommendation of the World Bank. When it was merged, that entity became what we came to know as NEPA.

From my experience, I can confidently say that a system run by government cannot succeed. It has never worked. Government’s job is not to be physically involved in running industries. No. Do you know that when former President Olusegun Obasanjo became president, at that time, I think we had about three thousand megawatts or so that were available. It was not enough, so he ordered 18 gas turbines from General Electric in America and we paid $16 billion for them. Those gas turbines arrived in 2007 and the government, together with the Minister of Power at that time, decided where those 18 gas turbines would be located. You know, as a technical matter, once you have decided the site, you have to build a structure where those turbines will be placed, and you have to pipe the gas to those locations. Nobody bothered about these details. They just said to bring the gas turbines and once the gas turbines are here, we will simply have electricity. But that is just the production part. The distribution part also requires transmission lines to get back into the network. What has happened since then? Stagnation. They are still borrowing money, and we want to make sure we have power. It is a joke.

When the gas turbines arrived, because we had paid General Electric in full, they were left at the ports for one year. Nobody bothered. If you were a private company and you had borrowed money from the bank to buy them, would you leave them there? And one major embarrassment was the one for Calabar. They knew that the truck that would carry the turbine, you know, crossing the last bridge coming from Akwa Ibom into Cross River, that the truck would not be able to pass through that bridge. Who thought about that? It took a very long time to dismantle that bridge for the truck to be able to pass through.

All I am saying, in general is that they have lost their commitment to the needs of the people of this country. We have a minister. We have a permanent secretary. We still have engineers. We have all those directors. What on earth are they doing? Do you think that if this had been a private company, you would leave it like that, while paying so much money? That takes me back to the kind of constitution where the government must divorce itself from running industries.

In the power sector, you have generation, transmission, then distribution. They privatised the distribution but if you have nothing to distribute, how can your company survive? They have allocated distribution companies. What is the point of distribution if there is nothing to distribute? What has happened to the 18 gas turbines? We paid for them. They landed here. That was 2007. This is 2026. What would have become of such high-tech equipment left in the open? Till Obasanjo left, they were not in use. In Ogun State, they managed something that a subsequent administration had to commission. Where was the gas coming from? Have they, till today, piped that gas from Bonny? We have enormous gas reserves here. All they needed to do was to ensure that gas would be piped from there to those various locations. And you know, that would have taken a lot of time, security and supervision. In the meantime, we are not united. The boys are hungry. When they see you digging the ground and trying to build something, they will demand money. Whereas who is telling them about the urgency of laying the gas pipes? We are not doing what we are expected to do. It is a shame. It is a disgrace. You have put people who have very little knowledge of the industry in charge. This nation has human resources.

This takes me also to those in the parliament who should be asking questions. Recently, a young man from Abia State summoned the Minister of Finance to the House Committee on Finance. He said: “We approved your budget, the capital budget, and the funds were allocated. Why have you not distributed those funds to the relevant people?” I do not remember the young man’s name. I was very impressed, believing again that all is still not lost. He exhibited such depth of knowledge. He really put the minister to task. When the minister could not answer, he said it was not him in charge of that area, it was his deputy. So they brought the deputy to appear as well. It was a show of shame. I think the president invited the young man. And all I heard was that he has since jumped from his party. Some people said he went to APC; others said he has joined some other party. But these are the people who sent you, those who elected you are waiting. Not for you to be hopping from party to party like a snake that is being hunted.

For the loans we are collecting, how do you intend to pay them back? You borrow the money; you are expected to utilise it; you generate returns on investment; and then you are able to pay back the loan, because it is not a free lunch. I do not know what is going on. In the meantime, we are busy dismantling the other political competitors so that you can become the sole candidate. Do you think this country was built on the platform of one individual or one party ruling this country? You know the number of different tribes, the number of languages, the number of cultures, the number of beliefs and yet it will be just you? The moment we move away from multi-party democracy in this country, that is the moment this country will die. Because all we have been doing, since 1914, is trying to be a country.

We are trying to build a nation where every individual will feel, “I am a Nigerian, and I am proud to be a Nigerian.” But suddenly, something which has never happened in history, except two times when they wanted to demolish the ruling party, the Action Group, in the Western Region in 1962. I was in Form 4 then and it was a show of shame. I remember they decided they were going to declare a state of emergency in the Western Region. Papa Awolowo stood up. He was the leader of the opposition, and he told the Prime Minister: “Mr. Prime Minister, why do you want to create a crisis where there is none? You want to declare a state of emergency in the Western Region? Was there a crisis in Ijebu Ode? Was there a crisis in Ogbomosho? Was there a crisis in Ajegunle? Because at that time, part of Ajegunle was in the Western Region. Was there a crisis in Badagry? Badagry too was in the Western Region.” He said, “Mr. Prime Minister, you can only know the beginning of a crisis. You can never determine the end.” They declared a state of emergency all because they were trying to demolish the Action Group.

You know, all three political parties we had in those days were tribal parties: Action Group for the West, NPC for the North, and NCNC for the East. Where did they lead us? Civil war. After that, Papa Alex Ekwueme who will continue to have a special place in our book of history, invited people from all the other regions and they sat together and asked: “How can we remove these two evils; tribalism and religious bigotry?” They are terrible things, and they still haunt us. Every problem in Nigeria today is rooted in tribalism and religion. It is terrible.

We were still a country but not yet a nation because the transition from country to nation is not a 100-metre dash. It is a continent-wide journey. It takes many generations. It is a building block. Our electoral process is distasteful and disgusting. I want to plead with the INEC chairman not to turn himself into the undertaker of the will of the people of Nigeria. Allow the will of the people to prevail. If you suddenly reduce us to just one political party, we are standing right at the edge of hell. One more step and we go down. We cannot all sleep facing the same direction, there must be balance. But that is what seems to be happening.

What the late Alex Ekwueme left behind was gracious. He gave everybody that sense of belonging. I translated it when I described it as “turn-by-turn Nigeria Limited.” Whether you are from a minority tribe or a majority tribe, you will have your time in this country. That is going from just being a normal country to a nation. The difference between nationhood and a mere country is that the people of a nation are committed, dedicated, and loyal. They will go to war; they will fight and defend every inch of it where justice and fairness reign.

Today, when I look around at my age, having watched since the 1950s, I want to appeal to those currently serving as members of the Supreme Court: please save this country, so that your names will be in the golden pages of our history. Anything less means capitulating and subjecting yourselves to the executive. It is evil, it is injustice, and it will finish this country called Nigeria.

Government has the executive, the judiciary and the legislative arms as equal and independent arms. Now, if you sell your soul to the devil, what will happen to the common people? There is a young man who lives down this street. Since Friday, people heard that he came home for a holiday or something. They sleep on the streets waiting for him to pass. Is that the country you want to turn into a nation? As I turned into my street on Friday, I said, “There is no Catholic church in this area. Where are these people coming from?” I asked if there was a crisis somewhere. They said they were waiting for a wealthy benefactor who was in town. Waiting for what? It shows how far we have sunk. Old men, women, and children lining up in their hundreds to come and beg for food and it turned out that the man they were waiting for was Seyi Tinubu.

When I was growing up, from Isale Eko to Itafaji to Campbell Square, I went to St. John’s Primary School. We paid nothing. All your parents needed to do was sew your uniform and If you had money, they bought you shoes; if you did not, you went to school without shoes. Then I went to Igbobi College. Western Region. We did pay modest fees, if not, how would I have been where I am today?

But some of those beneficiaries are the ones who have put the country in this mess we are in…

Let the beneficiaries of free education come out. Find out who they are. Why are we saying that if someone has committed fraud with their certificate, they can simply walk away? Is that not against the national constitution? It has been allowed to pass. Forgery is no longer an issue. You can stand before the people, present yourself to your constituents as a fraudulent man. That is why the electoral process must be fixed.

What are your thoughts on the INEC chairman?

I am pleading with him. As an academic, he should reflect dignity and decency. He should not turn the blindfolded lady of justice upside down, remove the sword, remove the scales, so that everything is exposed. That is not justice and any nation, any government, that does not respect justice will collapse.

Most of the opposition parties are in one form or crisis or the other. What is the most feasible way out of it?

We have first-class traitors who were voted in by the people to either go the National Assembly, become governor or president. You campaigned to the people to win their trust, that you will manage the resources of the land for their benefit. But if you throw that into the dustbin, and anybody comes and anybody goes, then what are you looking for? You are encouraging traitors who will say A is B and B is A. They no longer care about the people. And what is governance all about? A former president of the United States after the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln said that democracy is a “government of the people, by the people, for the people.” That statement remains true today. So if our electoral process is designed to deceive people by saying you must go and update your registration, you must have your BVN, your NIN, then what about the millions in the villages who do not even go near a bank? Are they not Nigerians? Why are we doing this?

I want to appeal now to those in power to avoid this pettiness, to avoid this craziness, to avoid this lunacy, this self-conceitedness, and this slovenly attitude towards governance. People who did it in the past, how did they end up? Is there any perpetuity in government? No. Even in life? So many centuries ago, there was a general they called Alexander, from Macedonia. He conquered the then-known world. He was only 32 years old. After conquering the whole world, he was heading back home with all the spoils. Then he contracted malaria. The doctors, of course, at that time knew no cure for malaria. The general asked, “You mean I may die?” And he thought and said: “If I die, first distribute all this loot back to the people who need it. And when you put me in a coffin, put my hands outside so that people will see that I am heading back to my Creator with empty hands.” What has anyone in history ever carried to the grave? Nothing. We came into the world naked, and we shall return naked.

I will tell you one experience I had recently. My older sister, who was a Muslim, passed away and they said they were going to bury her, that you just pay your respects. I am the next of kin to her. I was asked to stand there. It was the first time in my life I witnessed the Muslim burial rite. She was wrapped in white cloth, tied above and below. That caught me weeping. That is the Muslim way, a reminder of our common humanity before God. And then we went to the graveside. They dug the hole and they took my sister inside and covered her. I tell you, till I die, that image remains with me.

I am appealing now to the managers of this nation, and to all our governors who are jumping ship. People voted for you on the platform of a particular political party, believing in your ideology, your performance, the cerebral culture of the party. You decided, on your own, without consultation, to jump. You have a duty to the will of the people.

Talking about your party, the PDP, it was reported that the reconciliation efforts collapsed. Can you give us an insight into what happened?

That process was being used to deceive us. The first suggestion came from the Court of Appeal in Abuja. They said: “Look, you people are from the same family. Go and see how you can resolve your issues.” And because it came from the court, we regarded it as a brilliant idea. We met and set up a committee. We went to discuss with the Wike group but they were not interested. They were only interested in holding their own convention. Convention to what end? Did they follow the rules in electing delegates for the convention? They congregated there shamelessly. Those people, history will not be kind to them. I saw Saraki and Makarfi there, and I was disappointed. As for Saraki, I was there the day his father brought him to meet Baba Obasanjo to join the party and they welcomed him. Atiku adopted him and said, “Come and be Senior Special Adviser to me.” When Atiku subsequently contested for the presidential candidacy, did Saraki not join to contest against his own patron?

Why were you disappointed in Saraki specifically?

He was appointed by the party to be the chairman of the reconciliation committee. So that is where his own reconciliation landed him. Shameless. How did he become Senate President? He contested on the APC platform. He won. Then, not having enough internal numbers, he used PDP members to win the Senate Presidency.

Do you have any hope for your party?

By the grace of Almighty God and the way we were established, I think we are the only truly national party in this country. Our cultural values, our norms, our beliefs convince me that this is the party that will break the chain and allow the country to start moving forward.

But with the current situation, if there is no expedited hearing in the Supreme Court, what is going to be the fate of your party?

You can only know the beginning of a crisis but no individual can know the end of it. Why would they not hear us? Why would they not take our case? They have taken two such matters to the Supreme Court before, and those cases were expedited. So why would the court intentionally sit back now and pretend it did not hear? What would that portend to the public, to the international community? We have seen justices whose visas were withdrawn by civilised countries, with the message: “You cannot come to this country.” So I believe they have no choice. They have to hear us. They have to listen. That is why they are there.

And I am begging, I am appealing to my sister, who comes from Lagos and is now the head of the judiciary. Her father was an outstanding man. Let her ensure that she continues the goodwill, the goodness, the civility exercised by her father of whom we said, “Ah, we are proud of this man.” He was at one time chairman of the City Hall Local Government. Let her not disown the glory established by that Baba. Let the will of the people prevail. She did not take her oath to serve any individual. She is already Chief Justice. One day she will leave office and come home. What would she want to be remembered for? There are so many other justices there who will do what is right, who will respect that statue, the blindfolded lady of justice, holding a sword and a scale.

So you still have hope? You are still positive?

We are still in April. We are still in April. Let us wait and see. Remember when Justice Sowemimo jailed Chief Awolowo for treasonable felony? Who were those accused of planning to commit treason? Baba Adebanjo and other respected elders, those were the people they claimed had gone to Ghana to come and overthrow the government of Baba Awo? It was a joke. A huge joke. Where has it led us? Civil war. Millions of people who had no hand in the affair died for nothing. And have we learned any lessons? If you ignore the history of the past, you repeat the mistakes of the future. So where are we going? I am still appealing now: let them lock their doors, shut down everything else, and think about Nigeria, not their personal ambitions. I turn 81 this year. Can we not change for the better? I served this nation. This nation trained me. I committed myself not for my own tribe, but for all. Let the younger generation feel what we felt. What you are doing now, you are not leaving that smile on their faces the way others left it on ours. How would I have become who educated enough to read and write if the managers of the government at that time had not provided free education?

Let us move to the area of insecurity…

The approach to insecurity now is a joke. I am a weapons systems engineer. What they are doing is a huge joke. If I were to sit at the tactical table and look at what is happening, the people carrying out this banditry, are they coming from outside? No, definitely not. Are they not Nigerians? They are. They live amongst us; they drink amongst us; they socialise with us. Because they are disgruntled, unhappy, hungry, and angry, they have turned to violence. The solution is not this approach. These people live in their communities. During the daytime, you have no idea who they are. They dress like you and me; they speak the same language; they share the same culture. They are present on social media. But at night, they unleash mayhem.

Are they not being aided and abetted?

I do not think the government has the audacity to order anyone to go and kill people. I do not think so. But the solution is simple: community-level policing. When we had the constitutional conference, the review of our constitution, we unanimously agreed that there should be state police. The federal government appears to be agreeing to this now. But you agreed by word of mouth, what is actually going on? How long will it take? Why? To borrow money, they can approve it in two or three hours. Now, state police would create employment for these young men. They would be trained; they would return to their communities. In those communities, they speak the language; they know the people; they know the culture; they know the dos and don’ts. So why would some stranger come in the night and wreak havoc? Even if a recruit were tempted toward mischief, he now has discipline, he has authority, he has supervisors and there are colleagues who know who did what. If you are an outsider coming in at night, you will be spotted immediately. So why is it taking this long to establish community policing and tackle this banditry head-on?

What is your view on the recapitalisation of the banks? You have previously complained about the round-tripping that takes place in banks. How did some of these big figures make their money…..

That is how they made their money. When I was growing up, managing directors of banks were respectable individuals known for their integrity. I could give you their names. But suddenly, because corruption opened up in the system, you now find a bank managing director or chairman who owns two, three, or four private jets. See what they claim one of them had – 106 houses in central London. Where is his factory? Apart from his banking interests, what is he actually producing? Where are his factories? Do you know how many private aircraft some of these men own? Do you know how much that costs? Have any of them contributed one month’s worth of their wealth to a fund for poverty alleviation or skills acquisition? Some display their foundations on television, giving the impression of philanthropy. But have they started from their own villages? What have they done for the people in their home communities? They go there blowing grammar, blowing rhetoric.

So you do not believe these people made their money legitimately?

Legitimately? From where? If you are not producing anything, and the money is just flowing into your pocket, where is it coming from? Now the CBN governor, Cardoso, has taken a position, and everyone is constrained. There is no free flow of dollars. Everybody is crying for dollars. The ordinary traders are crying. No dollars. (The Sun)