Da Amakiri Tubo, Alhaji Mujahid Abubakr Dokubo-Asari, Dabaye Amakiri 1, the Amayanabo of The Source, Elem Kalabari, Torusarama Piri, has disclosed why the country is losing the war against banditry, kidnapping and terrorism, urging President Bola Ahmed Tinubu to carry out a holistic overhaul of the nation’s security apparatus.

The leader of the Niger Delta People’s Volunteer Force, in this exclusive interview with Sunday Sun in Abuja, disclosed that vested interests in the corridors of power, undue competition amongst security agencies and applying a particular approach to the war against insecurity in the country were the reasons the nation is not making much gains as far as the fight against insecurity is concerned.

Beyond these, he further said that the partnership between Nigeria and the United States to curb insecurity in the country is not working, accusing the United States President Donald Trump and the Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth, of bias against Muslims in Nigeria.

Amongst other issues, Dokubo-Asari spoke on the situation in the Niger Delta region, his support for President Bola Ahmed Tinubu’s re-election; even as he said that the President is far removed from day-to-day happenings.

The Issues that you and like-minded people have been advocating in the Niger Delta region are still very much with the people. Why has the status quo not changed?

We are worse than where we started. We are worse than where we started.

Even in this administration of your friend, President Bola Ahmed Tinubu?

Yes, that is the truth. We are worse than where we started.

So what is the way out?

For some of us, I am 62. By 60, I ought to have retired. The younger generation is not ready to make the sacrifices that we made. They are not ready to be flogged, they are not ready to be kicked, they are not ready to be put in chains, they are not ready to be in detention, they are not ready to be put in a dungeon, three-storey below the surface where the world does not know that you exist. You are buried alive. They are not ready for all that. They see the struggle as a cocoa farm. So, you see them running from NNPC, running from this one to this one and doing all sorts of things. Things that were taboo in our time are the things that this younger generation pride themselves of. Things that we consider as taboo, no go area, are the things that the younger generation now takes as…

Things like what?

Things like going to the companies, going to this thing, collecting from the companies and so on. Things that we considered as taboo, that we could not, are the things that they do now. Bunkering that I, I had all the powers to do bunkering and I didn’t do it. And that is why government, in my charge sheet, could not include bunkering because in all the investigations, they could not try it, even directly or remotely link me to bunkering and all those activities; to kidnapping and all those activities because you have to set a moral standard for yourself, which I did. So, for me, you now find out that there was a time Ijaw had four ministers under Olusegun Obasanjo. Today, Ijaw does not even have a minister. A minister of state is what is described as a minister without portfolio. That is the designation of a minister of state. So, he is not a real minister.

Is that Lokpobiri?

Yes, that is the only person. That is the only person. Under Obasanjo, at a time, we had Broderick Bozimo; we had Ebitimi Banigo under one government and they were solid people. They were handling ministerial positions. Under Yar’Adua, we had Foreign Minister Odein Ajumogobia; we had the Minister of Works, consolidated works, including transport and everything, then Diezani Alison-Madueke and then, we had Orubebe. Even under Gowon which was too much sef, we had attorney-general, we had minister for national reconstruction, and we had Minister for Health, Dr Akobo, who later under Murtala, became the first federal commissioner for petroleum. So, we have never had it as bad as a people, as Izon people.

You earlier said the South-West was no longer trustworthy in terms of political alliance, vowing to team up with Northern political elites. But you made a U-turn when the Minister of the Federal Capital Territory, Nyesom Wike, visited you and you assured him that you will support the re-election of President Tinubu…

(Cuts in) I have always said that my support for Tinubu has nothing to do with region. It has a personal relation to it. Tinubu stuck out his neck for me against a South-West president. But the people around Tinubu from the South-West are so arrogant and they look at everybody as, who is this one coming? You can’t do that in front of me. I don’t know who you are, I don’t know your pedigree, who are you to see me and look at me saying, who is this person coming? When I knew Tinubu, you were not there. You are privileged because you are from there. One baba will go and tell this person and you are put in a position, when you get into the position, you now see people who have made sacrifices and you tell them, who is this one coming? And I think the president is far removed from day-to-day happenings because the Tinubu that I knew before he became the president and now, there is a lot of difference. How are we going to explain that the Minister of Finance is from the South-West and the Minister of State is from the South-West? How are we going to explain to people when people confront us? We are going to tell them, ohhhh this one! No, no, no, no. So, what I have done is that I am ready to make the sacrifice, I am ready to stick out my neck, I am ready not to talk because even a mad person has friends, an armed robber has friends, a Catholic priest has friends, an Imam has friends, a pastor has friends and a native doctor has friends because that native doctor must have done something for you that when you see a pastor, when you see somebody else, you will say this man was with me when I had nothing, when I was in danger. That is my relationship with the president.

ADC chieftains such as Atiku Abubakar, Peter Obi, Rotimi Amaechi and other opposition leaders are warming up against the president’s re-election. Are you sure President Tinubu will be re-elected in 2027?

My one vote and the votes of the people with me will be for the president. But for me, I wonder what sort of president somebody like Peter Obi wants to become.

Why do you say so?

I know Peter Obi very well and I will keep on saying that if Nigerians do not want a disaster, somebody like Peter Obi should never get close to the position of responsibility in this country.

How about Atiku?

Atiku showed capacity when he was vice president. All the people jumping up and down were people whom Atiku brought into Obasanjo’s government. He has never held executive power. So, we don’t know his capacity. I have said it over and over, nobody knows the capacity of Atiku because he has never exercised executive power.

How about Rotimi Amaechi who had been speaker for eight years, governor for eight years, minister for seven years plus…

(Cuts in) Speaker for eight years, governor for eight years, minister. So what did he do?

People said he did well in Rivers…

Did well? Is that your impression of what did well mean? Have you been to China?

Yes, I schooled in China for two years.

So, when you go to China and you come to Rivers State, will you say the governor did well? So, the revenue coming to Rivers State, where does the revenue go to? Or when you look at the skyline of Abuja, can you compare it to the skyline of Port Harcourt or any part of Rivers State? Even if you go to Ondo State, do you know how many cities that are in Ondo State, compared to Rivers State? So, if somebody is governor of Rivers State, how can we say that any governor of Rivers State did well? Take Ondo State, the number of cities in Ondo State, compare it, large towns in Ondo State, compare it with Rivers State. See, the South-South and South-East as a whole are the most underdeveloped parts of Nigeria. Forget about posting razzmatazz, we are this, we are that. Compare them to the South-West and even with the North. When you go up North, you go to Kano and see large towns that are arid areas and you compare it with our state, you will see the poverty level, but look at the commerce, the craftsmanship in those areas. What do our people do? The South-South is even worst. There is no capacity development, the people are all leaving everyday; they are leaving everyday thinking how they will survive the next day. Everybody is a hustler.

Beyond this is still the issue of kidnapping, banditry and terrorism which the country is battling with. Why have you and like-minded people not rally round the government to put an end to it?

I am not among those who are… I am in the theatre. I have been in the theatre for the past five years.

What do you mean by being in the theatre?

General Muhammadu Buhari, in the middle of October 2021, approached me through the DSS and asked me if I had been able to, because IPOB had said there would be no election in Anambra State. And when IPOB said that, I countered them. I was not in good terms with that government. I was one of the big critics of that government and I countered them by saying that election will hold and nothing will happen. I don’t know who else the government approached, but the government approached me and said, is it possible for election to hold? I said yes. So, we went to the election on the 4th of November. I think election was held on the 6th of November 2021. Two days before election. And when I was going, the DSS officer in charge of the project, I said look, election will hold. He is a Muslim and he said Mallam Mujahd, speak like a Muslim. I said walahi, walahi bi izlilah, election will hold and nothing will happen because all the forces were doing show of force and these people were hitting them. We went, there was no single incident, we overran the camps of IPOB and ESN. We overran their camps. Elections were held. Ihiala was the only place that election was not held. And then we left. Then on a Monday, I think they came out and killed eleven people and the government of General Muhammadu Buhari called and said, Mujahid, can you go to Imo and Anambra? And we went and we cleared the place. From there, we moved to Plateau, Niger and Zamfara.

So, you have been working behind the scene?

No. Not that I have been working behind the scene, I have over 3,000 people.

But how can we put an end to the insecurity in the country?

That depends on the government and the people because the president might not know. As I am talking to you, for 44 months, I have not been paid.

Paid for what?

For the services of the men who are fighting at the forefront, getting injured and dying.

For the services you rendered?

Yes. Forty-four months.

By the government of Buhari?

No. Buhari left. In Imo for 44 months.

During the last election in Imo?

No, it is not election. We are there permanently. We have been in Imo permanently since 2021.

Not for pipeline surveillance?

No, no, no, no. I am not involved in pipeline surveillance. I want pipeline surveillance now, but I am not involved. Na my right to get pipeline surveillance.

People are really worried, how can we put an end to insecurity in the country?

I think some people are gaining from the insecurity because if the Nigerian Government had brought South Africans and paid billions to South Africans and at the end of the day, they achieved next to nothing and there are people here who can do the job for the Nigerian Government, in collaboration with the security services, why don’t you give them? And you have tried them for five years. You tried them for five years and they have been effective. We have gone on joint operation with every military formation available in this country and it has been excellent and result-oriented. But if it is one step forward, one hundred steps backward, definitely, the problem of insecurity will not be solved.

So, the government is not consistent?

Policy making and decision does not come as quick as possible. If somebody was not paid for 44 months in Imo, what do you expect him to achieve? But we have, from our savings, we are paying the men to make sure that it does not fail because the excuse will be, he is in Imo now, and it has failed. Him dey run mouth, no be Imo wey him dey, dem don overrun him barrack, dem don overrun him formation.

Again, can this approach work in the Northern areas where…?

(Cuts in) We are in Zamfara. We were the first people in 14 years to enter the camp of Turji. His second in command died, so many people died, we also lost men. We are in Niger.

What did you discover on ground?

These people are fully armed. These people have enough supply of arms and ammunitions.

So how can the government disarmed them?

That is what we are saying. When you are hitting them, you don’t stop.

You hit them continuously?

Yes, so that they won’t be free, so that you will take over. All of us are witnesses to what is happening today in the Middle East. When they hit you, you hit them. And then, there are too many agencies in this anti-terrorists fight.

Which agency do you think should be strictly responsible?

Let me tell you, and they are all competing. There are competing and conflicting interests. Today, the Americans are here, we are working with the Americans side by side. The Canadians are here, the British are here. The British had been there from time. Now, these people are here; these people are here. What you ought to do is, what interest do they represent? Where an American Defence Secretary who believes that Muslims should be killed, the lives of Muslims are not important and he has now turned from Defence Secretary to Secretary of War.

Pete Hegseth?

Yes. He sent his men here and where he sent them to, it is majority a Muslim area. Or where he sent them to, I am a Muslim and I know that this is an Islamic phobic maniac.

Pete Hegseth?

Yes, he is an Islamic phobic maniac.

Do you think this approach is working, this United States approach, our partnership with them, is it working?

It will not work.

Why?

Because it has already eliminated more than 50 per cent of the population of Nigeria.

Fifty per cent?

Yes, more than 50 per cent.

In which areas?

More than 50 per cent of the population of this country is Muslims. And the characters – Trump, his pronouncements, his actions; the Secretary of War, his pronouncements, his actions have clearly shown that they are anti-Muslims. And then, when you say that there is Christian genocide going on in Nigeria, there is no such thing. More Muslims are being killed than Christians. In the South-East, Muslims are being killed.

What advice do you have for the president on how to end the insecurity in the country?

For me, the president should take a holistic overhaul.

Of the security apparatus?

Yes, holistic overhaul.

Are you saying that the change of the service chiefs is not enough?

Service chiefs are individuals. They are constrained by political decision makers. Somebody is a service chief and there is somebody who has nothing to do with security, who just want contract, who can go and whisper into the ear of the friend of the president, so the service chief, who sincerely goes with his memo, cannot have his memo approved. His memo will be kept for four, five months. When you get a security man, you keep a security man’s memo for 24 hours, are you also holding back the memo of the person the security man is writing against? So, they said while they were sleeping, the enemy came to sow tares among the wheat. You are sleeping, the enemy came to sow tares among the wheat. When you are sleeping, the enemy is preparing. That is the consequences we are facing. There are different drags – this one is pulling this one, this one is pulling this one, this one is pulling this one.

So, there is nothing like concerted efforts?

See, even if you want to do concerted efforts, for instance, if my people want to go on a mission, we have found the coordinates of where the enemies are and we want to go on a mission and we are called that somebody else somewhere said that that is not the most appropriate time to strike, meanwhile, that person will not be at the front. The men who are going to be at the front, who are going to confront the enemy, have taken a decision; they have found out, they have done the coordinate, they have looked at what is available for them, they are looking at people who are gathering. Let me give you an example, the Abuja road (Abuja-Kaduna train attack), Amaechi and his ministry were warned of an impending attack and our men who were on the ground were detailed. The Minister of Transport did not take that report seriously. So, you go to the president, the Department of State Security goes to the president and present a memo, classified memo. In it, they show you all the locations where these people are, they have taken the proper coordinates, they have done everything and the minister comes and tells the president that he has contacted Israeli companies, they are going to bring drones, they are going to do this one and it is 20 times more expensive than what the state security is presenting. But for whatever reason, the government believes that the minister – you know there are political considerations. The minister, let’s give the minister the time and the minister goes on and a disaster takes place. And the minister does not take responsibility, he does not resign, the lives of the people of Nigeria are so cheap, they have been killed, the railway has been disrupted and then, it is after people have died, people have been captured, Nigeria has been humiliated, people have gone through the trauma that the government now said, ehen, they pick up a memo, ah, ah, where are the Dokubo people, na dem sabi, let Dokubo people come oooo. Then you go. When you go and open the place up, you chase away the people, when you chase these people away and you open the place, all of a sudden, somebody goes with a contract proposal and says, this one we are doing, these people are rag tag army oooo, I am going to bring Turkish security. They bring Turkish security and the Turkish security now comes and says, we know that you people, you have been working on this road. A Turkish man coming to a Nigerian that has the capacity and says we are going to give you so, so, so place to man. You are mad, come on, get out of here. In my country, I won’t do it. Go and give it to other people you want to give it. So, we refuse to take and when it is hot, we are now blackmailed. When there is a big push by the bandits or whatever they call them, it now becomes a blackmail. They now tell our clients, ehen, your people, where are they? Where are they? Your people, where are they? Let them come, meanwhile, you have gone to pay fifty-something billion to a Turkish firm that is doing nothing. They did not clear the place, other people cleared it. When they find themselves in hot spot, you come back to these same people with blackmail – What are they being paid for? What are they being paid for? What are they being paid for?

In all these, are you confident that we can win this war against banditry, kidnapping and terrorism?

See, you can’t be doing something the same way and expect a different result. You can’t. (The Sun)