Azuka Ogujiuba, publisher of Media Room Hub, was recently arrested and detained in Abuja for three days by the police over publishing what she called a “court order.” Activist and publisher of CrossRiverWatch, Agba Jalingo, is also not new to unlawful arrests and detentions.

During the administration of ex-Governor Ben Ayade of Cross River State, he was illegally imprisoned for six months in Calabar, for publishing a story that offended the governor.

After that, he was detained in Kuje prison, Abuja, for nine days for another story about the governor’s younger brother’s wife. In this joint interview on Perspectives, an Arise TV programme, both journalists share harrowing stories about their unlawful arrests and detentions.

They also spoke about the Cyber Crime Act and defamation, among other interesting issues. Excerpts:

Were you manhandled or anything like that?

They struggled to take my phone because I said I wanted to talk to my publisher, Nduka Obaigbena, and editor, Shaka Momodu. They refused. They took my phone.

How long were you there for (in a cell at Abuja)?

I was there for three days. When I found out that they were going to detain me, I started talking to the Ifeoma girl (a police officer). I told her: “You are a woman like me, and even if the men want to put me in a cell, you should be the one talking to them on my behalf, that I did nothing.” But she looked away.

What was the cell like?

Horrible. I do not even wish my enemy to be in any Nigerian police cell, if that is how they are. It was very smelly and dirty. Immediately I entered that cell, I said: ‘God, what have I done?’ I was almost losing my mind. The next cell was the male cell. In the male cell, they were more than 20 men there. Whenever the men used the toilet in their cell, the smell came directly to my cell. I could not breathe. I could not eat. I could not tell whether it was morning or night. The only time I knew that it was late was when mosquitos started feasting on my body. The mosquitos were not scared. They were not normal mosquitos. Due to those mosquitos, you could be hitting yourself like someone running mad. In those three days, I could not sleep.

What is your take on this story (Ogujiuba’s) so far?

I would say vehemently that this is a pattern with the police these days. And it is getting worse under this IGP. The level of impunity. Last year alone, 751 people were arrested in connection with cybercrime allegations. 751 in Nigeria, and that is the highest number we have seen. I do not think we even saw (arrest of people rampantly in this manner) than under the military. This IGP has elevated this impunity to a level that is very shocking. The police are now used for renters. If you have money and anybody harasses you, just pay them (police) and they are off. They get themselves into some vans or hop into a plane.

They are off to go and drag these people to wherever they want to take them. Because defamation is not supported by any law in Lagos State, they usually want to drag the person out of Lagos. Defamation is a civil matter in Lagos State. Deliberately, Lagos State government has refused to criminalize defamation. Therefore, most of these people always send letters from outside Lagos.

Why is the law in Lagos different from other states?

It depends on the goal of the lawmakers in each of the states. All over the world, defamation is supposed to be a civil matter. But in Nigeria, we have criminal defamation. At all times, I have insisted that we cannot criminalize the right to speak or write and it should be stopped.

People do not have to always pass through a police station to get to court. We are not saying that people should go out there and speak rubbish or write nonsense about other people. But when people do, the courts are open. Call your lawyer and let people be sued. But in Nigeria, people always want to flex their power. They want to show you that they can deal with you. The only thing that satisfies them is to see you in handcuffs, a Black Maria, being harassed left, right and centre. That is what gives them satisfaction. They are not looking for justice, actually.

If their goal is to seek justice, what will it cost to call a lawyer, file an action in court against that person? But that is not what they want. They want to see you in a police cell. They want to intimidate you, and show you that they have power. This has happened to me several times. I was arrested by police sent former Governor Benedict Ayade because I wrote a story on misappropriation in the Cross River State Microfinance Bank. They sent the police to bundle me from Lagos. The police kept me in the boot of a Toyota Highlander for 26 hours. In handcuffs, I defecated on my body twice. When we got to Uyo, they brought me out of there.

Why were you kept in the vehicle for 26 hours?

I didn’t know. I was in the boot, so I did not even know what was happening. When we got to Uyo, I was brought out. They allowed me to clean up myself, and then we drove into Calabar. I knew when they took me off, and I knew when we got down. I suspected that they actually wanted to kill me on the road, if not for the fact that the matter was already in the news. Very strongly, I suspect that because the journey ordinarily should not be up to 26 hours. I guess they wanted to do something with me on the road. But even when we got to Calabar, they kept me at the anti-cultism unit of the police for 43 days, then I was dumped in a lockdown prison.

Were you allowed to see a lawyer?

They were not ready to take me to court. They said I should write an apology. I refused because I did not do anything wrong. So, they charged me for terrorism, treasonable felony and attempts to overthrow the late former President Muhammadu Buhari and ex-Governor Ayade. I was dumped in prison for six months.

What made them release you in the end?

I was kept in prison and charged. It was the court that released me. I was on trial for three years until the court discharged and acquitted me. But that was not enough. One year down the line, they came again for me because I also wrote a story about the fact that the wife of the governor’s younger brother hired somebody to write her law school exams. They sent people again, who came and arrested me. Of course, we went to court which discharged and acquitted me. If I did not have evidence, the court would not have acquitted me. Again, they took me to Abuja. I was arraigned in Abuja for violating Section 24 of the Cyber Crime Act, and I was on trial for two years. Later, I was discharged and acquitted.

How long were you kept in Abuja?

After six months in Calabar, I was detained in Kuje prison for nine days. It is a recurring thing. Look at what they are doing to Sowore, for instance. Persistently, they do not want us to talk. The Cyber Crime Act was enacted mainly to deal with journalists and dissenters on social media. That law is of no other use than that. Section 24 is what they are using to run after us everywhere. And that is why civil society organizations and journalists are fighting tooth and nail to see that that law is repealed because it is now a tool in the hands of politicians to run after us.

Talking of rogue police officers. How much is it about politicians or vested interests using them as their private tool?

I think it is part of the reason they don’t pay the police well. They don’t allow them to have their independence. I think they pauperize them so they can continue to make them a militia for the elite. There are some very fine police officers and even the other ranks. In all my experiences with the police, if not for these few ones, there are occasions when you could almost have cases of mental illness. You could break down inside those detention centres. But everywhere they locked me up, there would always be a few of them who are very decent, concerned about my condition, knowing that I was innocent. In Calabar, where I was detained at the anti-cultism unit for 43 days, I also met some very nice policemen with whom I have kept a relationship.

Did you meet any prisoners who had harrowing stories to tell about their situation?

I also had very harrowing stories to tell, but it is just that within that harrowing story, you could meet a policeman that will take the risk of giving you a phone to make phone calls when it was very risky for him. There are some that could even give money; there are some that will give you some of those things that you need that the authority will not allow you to have. Some of them are humane, and I don’t want to wrap all of them in the same cloth. Even in the prison, there were decent warders, and there were others that were very horrible. There is no detention centre in Nigeria that you don’t pay. Whether it is in prison or the police station, I have not been to the NDLEA before, but wherever they lock you up, there is no way you don’t pay for it. It is not official.

What you are saying is that with the right amount of money, you won’t need to suffer in prison?

You will still suffer, but you will not suffer as much as those who do not have money. Most of the people in police detention, and even in prison, are innocent. There is only a minute percentage of people who are detained, whether in prisons or police stations, that have actually committed crimes. For instance, any IPO that has 10 detainees is counting the amount of money he would collect from those 10 people. One of the biggest lies in Nigeria is that bail is free. Or that visit to prison is free. It is a lie. None of them is free. If you don’t pay money, you will not see your relative in prison. I have slept in five prisons, and that’s why I am speaking from experience.

What kind of prices do you have to pay?

You must pay the warders before they allow you to see anyone. In Calabar, they collect as little as N50. If you bring them N10,000, N20,000, any amount of money you give them, they collect. That is the truth of the matter. Even in Kuje, that is supposedly the best prison in West Africa, as it were, because that one looks like a hostel, they still collect money from you. For now, we do not have a people’s police. If you have money, you can always have your way around this country. People stay in jail and do all kinds of things. There are those in jail with phones, they live large in prison. They have everything that they want. The only thing I did not see in jail is human parts and guns. Every other thing you want, including cocaine, it is in jail. If you want to have sex, you will have it. With the right amount of money, everything can be arranged. These things happen. The apartments are graded. Almost every Nigerian prison has a special cell.

Whenever these arrests happen, the Nigerian Union of Journalists, NUJ, and other media bodies release statements. Is it that they are barking louder than their bite?

We will continue to call on the NUJ to do more, but it is unfortunate that even salaries for members, the NUJ has not done anything about it. There are so many media organizations that will not pay their staff for many months and the NUJ cannot even raise a voice, not to talk about fighting the police. And then most of the people that emerge into the leadership of these organizations, these unions, not just the NUJ, could be state agents. It is common knowledge and I have also come to the conclusion that most of the people who leave the job, and go into the politics of the job, like unionism, are no longer impressed by what is happening in the newsroom. They are detached from the issue that concerns the everyday reporter that goes out there to do his job. (Saturday Vanguard)