Honourable Salihu Lukman is a former National Vice Chairman (North West) of the All Progressives Congress (APC). He resigned his appointment from the APC National Working Committee on the eve of the emergence of former Kano State governor, Abdullahi Umar Ganduje, as the party’s National Chairman. He has since resigned his membership of the party. The former Director General of the Progressives Governors Forum is an insider in the much publicised unfolding coalition of political parties ahead of the next general election. In this interview by TAIWO AMODU, Lukman expresses confidence in the capacity of an amalgam of former presidential candidates under one party to oust the APC and President Bola Tinubu in 2027.

Your resignation as the National Vice Chairman (North West) of the All Progressives Congress (APC) jolted many. Now with the benefit of hindsight, do you think your action was right, with the strongly held opinion that somebody like you could always correct the wrong in a system right from within?

I would say that my decision to resign was justified. If, after my resignation, the actions of leaders both in the party and in government tilt in a direction that demonstrates that I was wrong with reference to the capacity to meet the expectations of the citizens, then maybe the argument about being wrong could have been sustained. But, instead, what has happened is that almost on a daily basis, both the party and the government produced by the party become much more distant from the people and from the promises they made. The question for those who are arguing that ‘if you had stayed, you would have been able to follow from inside’ is, what have they themselves done to demonstrate that they are making positive contributions? Those saying that if somebody like me had stayed, I would have strengthened them, maybe if one can remind you a bit about some of the issues before my resignation. If you remember, I resigned in July 2023, about two months after the President was sworn in; about five months after he won election. At the time he was sworn in, we were confronted with a challenge whereby, if you remember, I was at the forefront of the advocacy to return the party to its founding vision. What is the founding vision? Being a progressive party whereby organs are meeting, there is debate within the party, whereby people are able to tell elected representatives produced by the party that this is what the people want, and on the basis of which elected representatives are responding. But instead, things progressively got worse. From a situation where immediately after the inauguration of the President, there was a NEC meeting, there was a national caucus meeting, to a situation where no meeting has taken place up to today.

When I was trying to launch my book, I had the privilege of meeting the National Chairman, Dr Abullahi Umar Ganduje, whom I was opposed to, but whom I respected. At a personal level, I can even say I have a good relationship with him, but my good relationship with him does not becloud my understanding of what should be right. When I met him, I made it very clear to him: ‘Now you are national chairman. And my understanding is that you will be left almost like an orphan. The critical Issue facing the party, because for the party to even ensure its organs are meeting, the party must have sources of funding. Those have not been defined’. And I volunteered. I said, ‘Well, I will give you a proposal on how to address the funding of the party’. And I did. I shared it. Up to today, I have not received any feedback. But what I can predict is that the party has finished spending all the money it mobilised from sales of forms for the last election. And now they are running from pillar to post, behaving like contractors to access funding in government. Coming from a non-governmental sector, I have spent most of my adult life or my career life in trade unions. And trade unions are funded by members. So, I know what it means to mobilise funding by members, and I think that is the big gap in politics today. None of our parties is organised that way. That is the critical challenge which, if this democracy is to really grow, we have to address.

So, to answer your question directly, if anything has happened, it is to vindicate my decision to resign. Of course, it comes with a lot of challenges. You know, having resigned, am I going to surrender, to just sit back and watch things continue to progressively degenerate? No. And that is where I am today. Today, we are at the forefront of the advocacy, about people coming together to work out an alternative to the PDP, an alternative to the APC, alternatives to all the parties that are there, and negotiation is going on and good progress is being made.

Talking about forming an alternative political party, a coalition of sort, to dislodge the ruling party, how feasible, how practicable is that, considering the fact that there’s so much power with the ruling party?

Well, the interesting thing in politics is that most people analyse it based on some static reasons. You look at the APC today and I remember in 2013, 2014, we confronted that situation. Many people who had that static reasoning, whose minds were with the PDP believe that the APC would not go anywhere. And I remember I was at the forefront of such advocacy to say no. The truth is that, if you work very hard, you will succeed. Today, all that has come to pass. The APC has defeated the PDP, and I believe that, given the reality before us today. And what is that reality? The reality is that Nigerians are disappointed. When I say disappointed, it is not in a partisan way; it’s not just about the APC. The same disappointment that led to the defeat of the PDP is what is happening today, in a way. It is a blanket disappointment in almost everything political. So, the challenge before all of us is to demonstrate to Nigerians that there can be hope. It is to prove that things can be made much more meaningful, and I think we are making good progress. Recently on TV, I made a point that life is all about choices. But in making those choices, you must also have the capacity to assess the mistakes that have been made in the past and begin to present an alternative that will not cause a repeat of those mistakes. And for me, the biggest mistake that has happened to our democracy is taking the political parties for granted.

Today, if you asked any politician, their major consideration is about contesting election, not holding positions in the party. But one of the good things that have happened too is that most of the politicians have exhausted themselves, either by way of finishing two terms as governors or holding position in the legislative arm of government. So, it’s all a question of how we challenge such people to think differently. And I tell you, if we are going to make sense out of this democracy, we must begin to see how to recruit some of our best instead of our best going to contest election as governors and as president. We must apply ourselves in such a way that our best also are locked in the party leadership because when you cannot afford to leave party leadership to hungry people, people whose role is not more than serving as errand boys or surrogates.

In the Second Republic, people holding political offices subordinated themselves to their political parties. We’ve not had that since then. Do you think we can still have a situation where political parties decide what the people in power do, and enforce adherence to their blueprints? Do you see that as achievable?

It depends on the goal we set for ourselves as a nation. Do you want a nation of scavengers or a nation of very confident, resourceful, productive people? For me, it is to set the right goals for ourselves, define the kind of nation we want to build. If truly Nigeria is to emerge as a world power or a black power worthy of reckoning, then we must do certain things that are right. We have a leadership standard whereby anybody with questionable money is a candidate for election at the highest level possible, even when such a person doesn’t have what is required to lead. That is what needs to change. And that can only change when the bases that produce leaders are made in such a way that they have standards. Throughout my time in the National Working Committee of the APC, one of the things that I advocated strongly is the need for a code of conduct. Many were shocked when I accused our leadership of turning the party’s secretariat into a warehouse where people aspiring to lead the National Assembly were coming to dump rice, sugar and what have you on members of the NWC. I said we should be above that. When you send people into party leadership, these are kingmakers and then a bag of rice becomes all that they need to make decisions. Then we are not going to build the kind of democratic nation we are hoping Nigeria should be. For goodness’ sake, what is so difficult in that? At the time we were talking, the party was in control of billions of naira.

I keep telling this story: In the Second Republic, it was not the responsibility of candidates to pay for nomination forms. I think at that time, I was a young person, but I remember that parties paid something to FEDECO for candidates. It wasn’t much, maybe 100 naira or so, but it was very big money at that time. But no candidate would go beyond the party and pay that. It was the party that would mobilise it and pay. We must tell ourselves the truth. You can be poor only if your mind is poor. As a person, if you don’t believe your worth is more than one hundred thousand naira, then you are not worth more than that. But if you believe you are worth more than one billion naira, then nobody can purchase you with one billion naira. I have seen it. I felt scandalised when, immediately after elections, I saw my colleagues in the NWC lobbying for appointments in government, to the extent that an acting national chairman would take a position as a minister, which meant that a national chairman was subordinate to a minister; maybe with reference to the portfolio in terms of financial resources. But I also believe that if you manage the party right, there will be a considerable volume of resources the party would have. Again, I challenge people in all political parties to present the budgets of the parties. They don’t have budgets. If we sit down and work it out, the budget of a ruling party like the APC should be more than 100 billion naira. I’m absolutely sure that any national chairman with such budget would not want to subordinate himself and go and take a ministerial appointment. So, it’s only a question of what our vision is.

It has not been easy In the last two years, largely because you have to start almost from scratch, adventurously meeting people, making proposals that may not look attractive to people. But because of the reality confronting us today, we are somewhere; there is almost a consensus that people have to come together and work for an alternative political party, largely because none of the parties is functioning.

You made a call in one of your press statements that the known faces who have been presidential candidates should bury their ambitions. I know it worked for APC because people like that were able to subordinate their ambitions and allow Buhari to contest in 2015. That was why you were able to win. Don’t you see your call now as a tall order?

It was even In 2013, 2014 that it was a tall order. And the only reason why the APC succeeded was because the people respected that. If we are going to succeed now, people have to respect that, because first, at this point, I’m not supporting anybody’s presidential ambition. That does not mean that in 2027, I will not have a candidate. But for everybody to come together, that level playing field must be produced. We must not close the door such that for people to come in, it would be conditional; they have to support somebody’s presidential ambition. That is the value of that call. And I think it resonates. Even those who are pushing for their own personal ambition know that if they are going to defeat Asiwaju, we need everybody. I mean, those who contested the last election, Alhaji Atiku Abubakar, Mr Peter Obi, Dr Rabiu Musa Kwankwaso, they knew they lost the election largely because they were divided.

Do you think they have learnt their lessons?

The question is: can they afford not to learn their lessons? Can they afford to watch the country go down the drain the way we are going down now? The big question we should all be asking ourselves is, are we even likely going to see 2027 as one nation, or do we want to continue just believing? This is why I keep hammering the point made by a former vice president of Ghana that politicians must learn to subordinate their personal ambition below national interest. I have no difficulty to meet all our leaders and remind them that the country has to be bigger than all of them. And I think I will confidently say I’m so happy that in some ways, the message is sinking in all of them, which is why somehow there is some good progress that is being made today. Like I said, all of them need to unite and I think we are making good progress.

There are people outside the North who see this emerging coalition as a gang-up against the South. They are saying that the North has a wrong sense of entitlement to the Nigerian presidency. How would you to react to this?

Well, let me be honest with you. I try not to be blackmailed. One of the things that I am very sure of is that we must find a way to take every opportunity and mobilise Nigerians to produce the votes that will defeat Asiwaju. I want us to produce something qualitative, something that will justify why we have democracy today; something that will enable us to produce leaders that will, on a daily basis, or even on an hourly basis, be thinking of what the Nigerian people want, and they will be working to meet those expectations.

I think, somehow, we are having people who are sentimentally attached. I know there are many southerners, in fact, even people from the South West, who are disappointed in the government being provided by the South. People from the South West have to ask the question: the fact that you come from the South West, what does it really mean in terms of the administration and the welfare condition of the people of the South West? So, I tried to resist being blackmailed, too. I have never been an advocate of regional politics. That is why when Buhari was departing and they were pushing for people around him; when they were pushing for a northern candidate, we never shied away. Many of us came out. I am from the North; I am from the core north. I’m not even from remote north.

Everything about me is north. But when it comes to issues of justice, I don’t shy away from debates. As far as I’m concerned, Asiwaju has failed many of us. I keep making the point that it is a challenge to him to prove us wrong. If he wakes up today and starts doing the right thing, I will turn back and acknowledge it. And if need be, I will apologise to him and come back to support him. But if he continues with this roller coaster governance drive, taking us to the downside of government, I owe him nothing. I don’t care if you brand me because I’m not trying to get him out simply because I’m from the North. I’m not just a Northerner. I mean, first and foremost, I’m human. And I challenge all those talking about North-South. Who among them have made a choice of where they come from? Those are decisions of God and God doesn’t make mistakes. I am engaging Asiwaju because he made wrong decisions.

In specific terms, what are your expectations? What do you think Tinubu should do rightly?

You shouldn’t make decisions impulsively. I give you a typical example. Asiwaju, in his inaugural speech, even before settling down to government, said subsidy was gone. I don’t think he had really calculated what it meant. In any case, I read economics, show me any country in the world, including the United States, that doesn’t give subsidy to vulnerable groups. The other day in his media chat, he said he didn’t believe in price control. Show me any country where all commodities are dictated by market forces. I mean, you can’t govern a nation with that kind of mindset. I think it was Senator Abaribe I was listening to some months ago. The Lagos-Calabar coastal highway is yet to be presented to the National Assembly for approval. So, you just contracted out a 15-trillion-naira project without recourse to the constitution? He makes a number of these reckless decisions and it just appears that even when people cry, he doesn’t care. For me, that is not the Asiwaju I thought I knew, whom I invested my support in. The Asiwaju I thought I knew was an Asiwaju who I believed was a progressive politician, who was sensitive to the condition of the people he governed, who also was surrounded by people who were committed to the development of the people he governed. This is not the Asiwaju we are having as the President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria today. I challenge anybody to prove me wrong.

What do you make of the pronouncement of the national chairman of the APC in that there is no vacancy in 2027, particularly for presidential aspirants from the North?

It’s the height of political naivety to say there is no vacancy. In politics, the mere fact that election is going to take place is a confirmation that vacancy exists. And for the occupant of the office to remain in office, he must attract the votes. I respect Dr Abdullahi Umar Ganduje and I recognise his knowledge, but on this particular issue, he betrayed his knowledge and he just appeared almost like a street hawker. If that statement had come from somebody who had not been in politics, who had not gone to school, I would have respected it. The mere fact that we are going to have election in 2027 means there is vacancy.

But his argument was that there was an arrangement of North-South power rotation which excludes the North in 2027. Are you against zoning?

As I said earlier, I will not be blackmailed. I’m engaging these issues with my eyes wide open. I am absolutely sure there are many qualified people from the South and there are many people who are today offering themselves up from the South. So, it is not a matter that is closed to the North, and I am very confident that we will sort out the political platform, and say, this is the platform on which we are going to produce the candidate, whether from the North or the South, who can really match Asiwaju and defeat him. (Saturday Tribune)