Former President of the Southern Kaduna Peoples Union (SOKAPU), Dr. Jonathan Asake, has warned that Nigeria is gradually grinding to the position of Sudan or Afghanistan. In his words, if nothing is done about it, terrorists will be strong enough to wake up one day and take over the government.

Asake, in an interview with VINCENT KALU, noted that the governors and others that defected to the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC) was not necessarily because they love the party, asserting that they jumped in there to have protection for some alleged corruption cases.

What are your thoughts on the January 2027 elections?

Nigeria is a nation that can best be described as a paradox, in the sense that what you think will happen may not happen at the end of the day, and what you think will not happen may happen at the end of the day.

As we draw closer to the elections, even with all the uncertainties, it will come to pass and the elections will be held. God loves this nation. We hope that a new government will still emerge, but which government is what I don’t know; which party is what I don’t know, and cannot tell.

The Appeal Court on Monday sacked the David Mark-led leadership of the ADC. Former Vice President Atiku Abubakar has accused the INEC of aiding President Bola Tinubu’s alleged agenda to disenfranchise ADC and other opposition parties. What is your position on this?

We have to look at the issue critically. If we are walking the same route every time in this country, we will hardly get it right. The beauty of democracy is to allow democratic structures to function, and one of the democratic functions is to allow the opposition to play its role. So, if the opposition parties are not allowed to participate, then it is a very dangerous thing for a democracy. Once this scenario prevails, it is very difficult for Nigeria to have the leaders that will take the country out of the predicament we have found ourselves because it will always be a continuation of the old order, and nobody will wish that.

If you look at the American democracy, for instance, you will see that no matter how a particular party performs, like we have the Republicans now; if they go for some years, the people will just have that mindset of changing to another party. Because the democratic structures are strong enough, when the people are determined to change to another party and bring about another leadership, it happens, even with the so-called incumbency power.

But here, because we are weakening our democratic structures every time; not allowing the structures to be strong and functional is the reason we continue to have leadership that people complain about because it reflects the weak structures that we have.

The present APC-led government needs to rise up and help the nation by allowing the structures of democracy to be strengthened so that we can have strong leadership, and this includes allowing the opposition parties to be functional and participate in the coming elections. That is what we expect.

Why would APC be afraid with its 31 governors, as well as majority in the National Assembly and state assemblies?

I have said it time and time again that all these defections to the APC by the state governors and the members of the assemblies, both at the national and state levels, are not a reflection of the love for the party. It’s just the Nigerian factor; that people want to jump into the bandwagon. Some are jumping because they allegedly have excess luggage of corruption and are afraid that they will use the EFCC against them. So, by jumping into the ruling party, they feel that they are safe. Just like the former Chairman of APC, Adams Oshiomhole, said sometimes that if you come to APC, your sins are forgiven, and we have seen that at play. So, people are jumping, not necessarily because they like to be in the APC or they have their loyalty with the APC, but they are jumping because they have some corruption cases that they want to cover up or overlooked.

A lot of them are jumping alone. A lot of the governors are jumping into the party alone; they are not carrying their people along.

The APC and this government have everything to fear because they know that they are only coaxing people to join the party, not because of the love of the party, not because they have loyalty to that party, but because they want protection from prosecution or investigation of their corrupt past. They have everything to be afraid of because the governors joining the party aren’t sincere; they are not sincerely committed to the party. That is the crux of the matter.

If you check, most of these state governors are not really committed to the ruling party, they are just joining as individuals; they are not joining as a group. Most of them, their people from various states have already given them the signal that they are not going with them. So, there’s every reason for the government of the day to be afraid of what may be the likely outcome in the final analysis.

After the party primaries, there are still discontent tunes across parties. What’s your view on the manner they were conducted?

Because of the disorganised nature of the exercises at the various parties and various levels, which was hugely caused by INEC itself.

The electoral umpire in trying to put out rules that may exclude other opposition parties now created the ground that brought frictions within the parties. This is also a culture that has been precipitated over the years in Nigeria, whether it is APC, PDP or ADC; it’s the same people that are moving. We have not got it right; we are still wandering in the wilderness.

Essentially, what is happening is not about the way party politics is played, it’s not about good governance, but about people who are just merely trying to survive within the polity. People move from one party to the other just trying to survive the system; to retain their position.

If you see one senator moving from one party to another, for instance, he’s just trying to see how he can win again, what chance he has to get the ticket so that he can win again to continue as a senator. He’s not thinking about being a good senator in the assembly when he goes there to make laws for the good governance of the nation. No, for most of them, it is not their problem. If you see a governor who has served for eight years, but he’s still moving to another party while he’s finishing his eight years, he’s moving to another party for protection, from being prosecuted because of his corrupt past or protection to get another office. Somebody has finished eight years as governor and he wants to be a senator. All those things are happening not for the good of the people.

You’ll keep seeing people fighting within parties during the primaries or congresses when the results are being announced. You keep seeing all this unorganised system until we get the whole thing right.

However, we cannot get it right if we have a government in place that is still playing this kind of crude game, and is not ready to dish out rules and regulations that will make every party to be strong and recruit people that will be thrown into the field to give good leadership in the final analysis. We we’re just going in a circle.

Given the short period of time for the electioneering to start, and the oppositions is still trying to find its feet, do you think that they will recover even to put up a good fight?

It’s not about the opposition only. There is no party that has even found its good ground. That’s why I said that any party in power is always given the latitude to destroy every other structure, which ought not to be the case.

If we say we are going to have credible elections, where votes will count, is the APC ready to go into this election? The answer is certainly no. Which party is ready? The answer is certainly none. The truth is that people should determine who becomes their leader, and the people have not always been allowed to determine that.

If you remember in 2023 election, for the first time in the history of Nigeria, people trooped out because of the frustration of the Buhari-led administration, and wanted to bring in the Labour Party candidate, and they expressed that by voting overwhelming, but the result came out differently.

That is also leading to voter apathy even in this coming election; there will be serious voter apathy because people will always want to vote when they know that the result of what they voted for will be reflected, but if they know that after standing in the sun and in the rain to vote for a candidate and something different is announced, and you go to the courts, and you still don’t find justice. The courts are behaving the same, INEC is behaving the same, the security is behaving the same, leading to frustration in the land, and that is what normally leads to revolutions – when people get frustrated because they are not getting the results of what they have worked for, then they will now organise themselves and find another way of bringing leaders that will do their own wish. As it is today, we are getting to that point of frustration.

The kidnapped Oyo students and teachers were released last Friday. There are other kidnapped people, including students in Askira Uba in Borno, still being held by terrorists. What do you expect the government to do in this instance?

It’s not only Askira Uba. In fact, if I tell you the number of abductions that have been done within this same time, or even before this time, you won’t believe it. In Kaduna State alone, on the 5th of April, this year, on a Sunday morning, while people were in church in a village called Ariko in Kachia Local Government, 37 people were attacked inside the church, and were taken captive by the same terrorists, and up till today, they have not been released. They were made up of mainly children and women. In fact, just last Tuesday, I was told that out of those 37 people, six children have died. There’s no food they’re giving them. Their abductors make videos of them from time to time and send it to the public.

The government knows where they are; in fact, they are in a place called Regena, which is just 46 kilometres to Kaduna. There is a forest there where they take all these captives to. They are in different camps; they have formed camps there. So, it’s not that the government does not know about this thing, but nobody’s talking about it.

Can compare what is happening today with what happened in Sudan, when the Janjaweed, the militia that was supported by government, who believe that they are closer to the Arabs because they have a fair skin and they started attacking the black people.

Today, they have transformed; they were being recruited back into the government forces, the same thing that we’re having today with Boko Haram and other terrorist groups that are being pardoned and recruited into the Nigerian military. At a point, the Janjaweed reached their peak, they started getting officers, they posted their officers into strategic places and they have taken over the government now and they have transformed themselves. It’s a terrorist government, and Sudan is a shadow of itself.

The same thing happened in Afghanistan, when these same terrorists, the Taliban infiltrated the national army. They were being pardoned and rehabilitated and integrated into national life and into the military. When the time reached that they grew in the military and became officers, they took over. Today, Afghanistan is a shadow of itself.

Come back to Nigeria, you will hear the government talking about Boko Haram with the international community because they are getting some support. You’ll hear the government talking about ISWAP; you’ll hear the government talking about other terrorist groups mostly in the North East.

But these terrorist groups are ideological, that means Boko Haram, IWSAP and other terrorist groups are advancing their own ideology that is the Wahhabis or Salafist Sunni version of Islam, which demands full implementation of Sharia law. That is all they want and so, to them it doesn’t matter if you are a Tijania Muslim or you are a Delica Muslim or you are any other Muslim, you are treated the same as an infidel, as long as you don’t believe in that ideology. So, their own is ideological, and that is why you see that they can kill both Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

But with the Fulani terrorists, it is a different thing; it is an agenda, and that is where the difference is. The agenda of the Fulani terrorist is a continuation of the Usman Dan Fodio jihad that was started in1804, and that jihad is aimed at taking over the land of the natives wherever they come, and hoisting their flag as a conquered territory.

So, you see the difference between the ideological terrorists and the land grabbing terrorists or ethnic militia. The only similarity here is that they are using religion, Islam to propagate this atrocity and take over the land. That is why you find them today in the Middle Belt, you find them in the south, you find them in Hausa land and they go after the communities that they want their land and their resources.

The government is aware of this. Government officials are sponsoring this. Even when the Americans came here, government officials would be talking about Boko Haram, ISWAP, ISIS, but they are never talking about the Fulani terrorists that are actually taking over the land.

They are the real people that are the threat to the unity of the country. They are the real people that are determined to take over government and institute their own government – the government of the Fulani by the Fulani and for the Fulani, while others will just be condoned citizens; they will be slaves under them. That is the second colonialism that the Fulani want to perpetrate in this country.

The government is afraid to talk about it because they are in government, some of them are senators; a lot of them are governors, a lot of them are within the security agencies; they are almost taking over this government. That is the precarious situation Nigeria has found itself. If nobody is saying this thing, this is exactly the picture that is going on. That is why you see they kidnap people they take ransoms in billions. The ones that were kidnapped in Kogi State, it was revealed that over one billion naira was paid. So, when people are kidnapping school children and the government is so weak or is so compromised that they go to negotiate with them and they give them money in billions, they go to buy more weapons. They are becoming stronger and that is why we can hear of the stories of a helicopter flying to go and deliver logistics to these Fulani terrorists in the forest.

This reminds me of a story that went viral just a few days ago. That two terrorist groups were fighting – the Lakaruwa and Dogo Gide, the terrorist commander. The Dogo Gide faction was seriously wounded, and there was a phone call and the community saw when Dogo Gide arrived to where his people were wounded and a helicopter came down and picked those wounded terrorists with the bullet wounds for treatment somewhere. Where were they taken to? Which hospital were they taken for treatment? Who actually brought that helicopter? Nobody is talking about it. This thing has gone viral on social media. Nobody is talking about it. Even in government circles.

The truth about it is that this country is gradually grinding to the position of Sudan or Afghanistan, where these Fulani terrorists will just wake up one day and will be strong enough to have even air power and then take over the government and that would be it. Or the government would be handed over to them if nothing is done about this.

A new twist is being added to the release of Oyo school children. The state governor, Seye Makinde is calling for international investigation. What’s your view on that?

Does it tally with exactly what I’m saying? Did I not just say that with what is happening, and I tried to differentiate between the ideological terrorists and these Fulani terrorists that are using religion in trying to take over land of a particular ethnic group. What I’m trying to say here is that they have succeeded in taking over. There is a senator that is known to have a link with these Fulani terrorists and kidnappers (it went viral on social media) that even the money they receive in ransom is counted in his house. Somebody took the risk and even filmed it, but nothing has come out of it.

We have senators, we have governors, we have emirs that are into this and they are known. We have highly placed government officials that are into this and they are known.

If Makinde is saying that, he is a governor, he is chief security officer of his state, and he has some intelligence at his fingertip, so he knows what he is saying, and he tallies with what I am saying, that the government knows about this. Where it involves Fulani terrorists, the government is playing the ostrich, because it is a big-time conspiracy.

And let me tell you why this thing is happening. If you look at Nigeria as it is, there is no state that is not endowed with natural resources.

What is happening in Zamfara State is that the Hausa natives are being killed because there are gold and other minerals in their land. The Chinese are conspiring with government officials to displace the natives and the occupants of those areas to procure the minerals. Mining is going on in those areas.

Come to Nasarawa, there is a lot of mineral deposits, including lithium. If you come to Kaduna State, there is lithium and other minerals. We have mineral deposits well-endowed all over the states. So all this terrorism, like I said, is championed by the Fulani to take over the lands of the people and lord over the people and take the minerals and take over the political leadership.

Of course, when you take over the political leadership in Africa and in Nigeria particularly, you command the economic power. And so, you cannot command them if you don’t have the land. And that’s why they are taking the land of the people.

Makinde knows what he’s saying. If we have courageous people that will also come out and say what they know in their various states it will help. If the governor of Taraba State will come out and say what he knows or the governor of Imo State will come out and say what he knows or other governors, or ministers, or emirs, or chiefs come out and say what they know, the solution would be in sight.

But most of them are afraid to say it; some have already caved in, and have already compromised their positions. Some are state governors, but they have compromised for what they will personally gain. They would rather sacrifice their own land and sacrifice their own people. That is an unfortunate situation. But it will not be long. It will catch up with everybody if we don’t rise up to the occasion.

What is your take on this issue of fake Federal Government agency and the revelation by the IMF that 8.8 trillion naira in the budget was diverted to other areas?

Like I said earlier, when the system is already corrupted, there is no limit to what you can see that will shock you. Like the presidential candidate of the NDC, Peter Obi in one of his interviews on television, said that we used to have ghost workers, now we’re having ghost agencies. That’s what Peter Obi said and it is true. We can even have ghost ministers, ghost governors, and someday a ghost president. There’s nothing that is not possible in this country if we continue to allow these things to go like this.

That’s why I say that we are grinding to a point of revolution in this country because when the existence of everybody is at stake, and you are pushed to the wall.

I can talk for my state, Kaduna; there are four local governments now – Kawuru, which has a boundary with Plateau State; Kachia, Kajuru and Chukkun that are under constant attacks by terrorists and kidnappers constantly. They are taken to the bush on daily basis, but nobody gets to hear about it. They will ask those helpless villages for money they don’t have.

Before, when this nonsense of kidnapping started, they would be talking of N5 million ransom and the victim’s family might negotiate and pay one million naira or even less. But now, they never call N10 million; never they call N30 million, but they start calling from N100 million, and if you don’t pay, they kill the person; if you pay late they kill the person or they kill the people. That is where we have found ourselves. The truth about it is that what we are seeing is just a reflection of how decayed the system has gotten; how rotten the system has gotten to a point of no return.

The only thing that can save this country now is a revolution; a revolution when people say no, no, no, things are not going according to the laid down rules and regulations; things are not going according to the laws of the land, so we have to change the system. (The Sun)

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