Former President of the Christian Association of Nigeria, Rev Samson Ayokunle, speaks with DANIEL AYANTOYE on the United States President Donald Trump?s recent threat against Nigeria on the alleged Christian genocide and the perceived silence of CAN?s leadership on national issues

There have been controversies on the alleged Christian genocide in the country. How true is the claim?

It is not a claim, but the situation on the ground. Please ask those who are disputing it, how many people do they want to be killed before they accept that it is genocide? Many Christian communities have been deliberately levelled, and the people who levelled those communities are now occupying their land?in Plateau and Benue states, including Southern Kaduna. I experienced these things. In Miango, a community in Plateau State, 21 people were reportedly killed during an attack that occurred despite the presence of only two churches in the village. People warned me against going to the village, that I could vanish. But I told them, ?If I perish, I perish.? Among the 21 people killed, 20 were Baptists from my own church, and I was the President of the Nigerian Baptist Convention. The other person was a Methodist. They descended on them overnight. What was their offence that should lead to such a massacre? Why did they choose to go to a predominantly Christian village? Two weeks after that, they went to that village again to finish the job, and we claim to have the military and the police.

There are also claims that victims are not only Christians but include Muslims as well.

Do you know that is the most disgusting statement I have ever heard? Are we now saying it is false that Christians are crying out because they are being killed? What makes the killing of Christians particularly worrisome is that those responsible are some Muslims. If members of the same faith attack one another, it?s viewed differently. But when some Muslims target Christians, it becomes persecution?and with the number involved, it is genocide.

Not only that, Mohammed Yusuf was the progenitor of Boko Haram, and when he was killed, Abubakar Shekau took over from him. Their stated goal was that Western education is forbidden; that Western government and democracy are evil, and that these have not brought people the prosperity they deserve. Therefore, they vowed to wipe out anything representing Western civilisation or democracy, including Christians.

They even issued a statement at the time, ordering all Christians in the North to vacate, declaring that they would wipe out anything un-Islamic. What, to them, could be more un-Islamic than Christians and the Church? They also said any Muslim critic or Muslim who opposed their cause would be wiped out because such a person had aligned with infidels. They were clear about their goal and determined to exterminate Christianity and Christians.

How can the government now defend them by saying they didn?t intend to wipe out Christians?except the government itself is an accomplice in this matter? That is why they have failed to end this crisis for the past 16 years.

If they now claim that Muslims are also being killed, who should stop the killers from targeting both Christians and Muslims? Is it not the responsibility of the government? Should any government take pride in watching its citizens being slaughtered? Now they have come up with statistics claiming that more Muslims have been killed than Christians. How did they arrive at that conclusion? From what research are they quoting such figures? This is a government that has failed to conduct a census for over 40 years to even know which group is larger than the other. It is simply a lazy government that has lost direction.

A month ago, It was reported that CAN, alongside the Federal Government, dismissed the genocide, and barely a week later, CAN agreed with the U.S. This attracted some concerns over efforts by the government to play down the issue. What is your take on that?

When the first news came out, I immediately issued a rebuttal because it was not correct. When you are dealing with politicians, you have to be very smart. Don?t let them come out with a statement before you. If that happens, they will misrepresent you and spoil your image. That was the reason CAN came out again to say that Christians have been massacred in this nation. That it is deliberate Christian genocide, and everything is on record.

Some have raised concerns that CAN has not been speaking enough on this issue until it got so bad that it took a United States senator to cry out for Christians in Nigeria, despite the existence of a body like CAN. Why is this situation so?

If the National Executive Council of the Christian Association of Nigeria feels that the present leadership is not representing well, let them speak out and address that matter. Also, if the journalists want to know whether the current CAN President is speaking or not, let them go to him and ask him why he is speaking or why he is not speaking.

The United States President, Donald Trump, has threatened to send military forces to Nigeria if the government fails to stop the alleged killing of Christians. What is your reaction to it?

I think it is a wake-up call to our clueless government. If what is happening is now embarrassing the international community, how come it is not embarrassing our government? With the military, police, DSS, and civil defence in place, what excuse do they have for not tackling this problem before it escalated to this level? For the past 16 years, they have not been able to nip this matter in the bud. The terrorists are now occupying new places, and the South-West is being affected as well. What then is the essence of government?

They are only focused on how to win the 2027 election when they have not done the needful for 2025 and 2026. I don?t know why people can be so shameless about their non-performance, especially in the area of security. They are so preoccupied with 2027, instead of focusing on how to save people?s lives.

How can anyone be playing politics with the blood of innocent people being shed every day? Am I glad that Muslims are being killed? Am I glad that Christians are being killed? Of course not. But my constituency is Christianity. If I cry out that my people are being killed and it has become unbearable, will you say I should keep quiet because Muslims are also being killed? What kind of madness and insensitivity is that?

That is why I say unless people like Trump intervene, these leaders are not serious about changing their deceptive and biased approach to security. Some of those in government have their hands in this evil. A governor even came out to say that some officials in government are complicit. Yet, those who are busy fighting to win the forthcoming election do not want to be blunt or address the matter head-on.

Is your personal ambition worth the shedding of innocent blood? That is the moral question before them, and they will answer to God one day. You cannot play politics with people?s lives. Many people?s dreams are being cut short overnight. I will continue to speak like this until justice is done.

Do you support the Trump?s military invasion threat?

If that will give us peace. This is not the first time I would advocate that if the government knows it cannot nip this thing in the bud, it should seek help from outside the country. What Nigerians will be glad about is that they can move about freely in the country of their birth and nativity. But if you say that you are our own people and you just stand in government like imbeciles doing nothing about the things affecting and consuming us, what?s the essence of you being there? So, it is a wake-up call to them that not everybody can just take all this massive bloodshed for granted. Don?t dare Trump. He has been doing everything he said he would do. When he descended on immigrants in America, they were using the law and everything to stop him, but he is accomplishing his purpose. That man does not take no for an answer. They should not dare him.

But some analysts have argued that, historically, U.S. interventions often leave the affected countries worse off, with increased instability and disruption

If the place is disrupted, who caused it? If Iran is no longer the same, who caused it? Who gave America the loophole to exploit? You are not causing disruption, but your people are dying in your presence, and you did nothing. What is worse than that? Let?s face reality. The more the people continue to defend their failure and behave as if nobody has died to justify the crime, the more you know that they are wicked and not ready to help Nigerians.

How would you assess the Federal Government?s response to Trump?s comments, particularly after Nigeria was described in such unflattering terms?

That is their cup of tea. That is how Trump has perceived their leadership. Disgraceful leaders will produce a nation of disgrace. Isn?t it shameful that this is what our leaders have brought Nigeria to over the past 16 years? A group of young people claiming to fight for Islam has held the entire nation to ransom for years?what could be more disgraceful?

It Is our leaders who have brought this shame upon the country. Now, they claim there is no genocide. But didn?t President Tinubu and his allies, back in 2014, campaigned and protested against the then President Goodluck Jonathan over the same issue of bloodshed?saying Christians were being wiped out and calling on the international community to intervene? So, what has changed now? When it was convenient politically, it was called persecution. Now, it is no longer Christians being killed but both Christians and Muslims.

If people are being killed before your eyes?regardless of their faith?and you remain silent, can that really be the response of someone who understands what is right and wrong? (Sunday PUNCH)

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